Talk:The Geography of the Seventy Nations

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Abrahamson 11:14, 4 July 2006 (EDT)

I am so sorry to point out that some of the information you have posted here is erroneous. For example, should Arpacsad's descendant Aram Naharaim (Aram of the two Nahors) i.e. Syria be identified with Aram son of Shem??? That case would put a whole new meaning to the Israelite declaration "My father was a wandering Aramaean" for instance. Kaz 12:34, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

The "Rabbinical designations" section comes from the Encyclopedia Judaica. It seems to be correct.

The "Modern Attempts at designations" is wrong in many places and should be deleted. It was only meant to be an example and it would be nice to have a full, modern theory described. The idea of ethnic nations is clearly a biblical concept, but no where does the Bible imply that one nation is "better" than another - only different.

There is new work tracing the migrations of peoples by analyzing DNA. But this work is unrelated to Rabbinic Judaism. Rabbinic Judaism tends to stress actions, language, culture and affiliations as more important than DNA for determining "ethnicity".

The conclusion still applies: according to Rabbinic Judaism, since Alexander the Great it is no longer possible to definitively trace ethnic nations. --Abrahamson 05:10, 1 December 2008 (EST)

Remember this is not Wikipedia. We are not trying to build an encyclopaedia here, nor repeat the mistakes of previous encyclopaedic entries. This is all about original research. What we are trying to achieve here is a fusion of scientific genetic fact with Torah. That means some of these Hebrew traditions will not be able to stand up and will have to be reduced to footnotes of historical interest but nothing else. Kaz 13:02, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

More documentation needed

Please document what you are referring to in the reference to "Ham's Sin with his mother". The Torah states that while Noah was passed out from wine, Ham "saw" his nakedness. Further, it states that it was Noah who uncovered himself (lest one think that the "nakedness" being referred to is Noah's wife- Ham's very mother!). The text goes on to say that Shem and Yephet then covered their father by walking in backwards; etc, etc. The text (or any Jewish tradition I am aware of) does not indicate adultery (or unlawful relations with ones' mother) as being perpetrated by Ham. Please document where this information came from. I agree with the previous commentator... This work appears to be erroneous or even worse. I think more documentation is necessary for this article

You are correct, that reference is erroneous (or even worse). See comment above --Abrahamson 05:10, 1 December 2008 (EST)

The individual nation pages linked to from Attributes of the Seventy Nations seem to have much better information, based on Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan's commentary on Genesis 10. That information should probably be moved, or folded into this page. If someone will help out, I will be glad to share the effort --Abrahamson 05:16, 1 December 2008 (EST)

Cana'an uncovered Na'amah, his grandfather's nakedness, and this is where the בנות האדם came from after the deluge. This is also why Can'an was cursed by Noah. Ham discovered what his son had done and went out to tell his brothers. Now if this is not true how do you explain Neanderthal DNA in human population of the planet today? Criticism is only valid if you have a better theory which addresses all the evidence. However there are some mistakes in the article, I can take it over and correct it if you like or we can come to an arrangement. Remember we started this website with BJ not to be the definitive source for rabbinical or primitive opinions (e.g. Josephus) but to try and find a scientific and rational fusion between the Hebrew traditions and scientific/historical fact. This is Tikkun Olam.Kaz 13:02, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't want anyone to "own" the page, but feel free to make changes. The goal is to provide convincing and complete material/research for use by Noahides and Orthodox Jews. If there are differing opinions, document them both. Regards --Abrahamson 13:41, 9 February 2011 (UTC)