Christianity and Noahide Law - Revision history

פטר חמור at 13:54, 21 April 2023

2023-04-21T13:54:44Z

פטר חמור at 13:37, 21 April 2023

2023-04-21T13:37:27Z

פטר חמור at 13:31, 21 April 2023

2023-04-21T13:31:01Z

פטר חמור at 10:43, 26 June 2011

2011-06-26T10:43:31Z

WikSysop: /* See also */

2009-12-28T08:45:16Z

‎See also

Elisheva: /* Bibliography */

2008-10-12T17:53:14Z

‎Bibliography

WikSysop: /* Christian opposition */

2007-05-28T22:33:01Z

‎Christian opposition

WikSysop: /* Christian opposition */

2007-05-28T22:24:54Z

‎Christian opposition

WikSysop: /* Christian opposition */

2007-05-28T22:06:49Z

‎Christian opposition

WikSysop: /* Christian support */

2007-05-28T22:05:49Z

‎Christian support

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 Within [[Judaism]] it is a matter of debate whether all Christians should be considered Noahides mainly due to the excessive levels of persecution against Jews perpetrated in the name of Christianity over the centuries culminating of course in the "Positive Christianity" of the Nazis during the holocaust.
-While Christianity appears to conform to six of the seven Noahide laws, an informal comparison of the [[Nicene Creed#The Nicene Creed, A Noahide Review|Nicene Creed and Noahide Law]] reveals that three major theological teachings may involve a violation of the Noahide prohibition against idolatry.
+While Christianity appears to conform to six of the seven Noahide laws, an informal comparison of the [[Nicene Creed#The Nicene Creed, A Noahide Review|Athanasian Creed and Noahide Law]] reveals that three major theological teachings may involve a violation of the Noahide prohibition against idolatry.
 *Equating [[Yeshu Notzri]] or [[Yeshua Sar HaPanim]] with G-d the Father.
 *Equating the Holy Spirit with G-d the Father.
 However, these theological issues do not fit the classical [[Noahide Law on Idolatry|Jewish definition of idolatry]]. This has caused disagreement among rabbinic authorities on the question of the permissibility of Christianity for non-Jews. (All authorities forbid Christianity for Jews).

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:37, 21 April 2023
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−	Within [[Judaism]] it is a matter of debate whether all Christians should be considered Noahides.	+	Within [[Judaism]] it is a matter of debate whether all Christians should be considered Noahides mainly due to the excessive levels of persecution against Jews perpetrated in the name of Christianity over the centuries culminating of course in the "Positive Christianity" of the Nazis during the holocaust.

	While Christianity appears to conform to six of the seven Noahide laws, an informal comparison of the [[Nicene Creed#The Nicene Creed, A Noahide Review\|Nicene Creed and Noahide Law]] reveals that three major theological teachings may involve a violation of the Noahide prohibition against idolatry.		While Christianity appears to conform to six of the seven Noahide laws, an informal comparison of the [[Nicene Creed#The Nicene Creed, A Noahide Review\|Nicene Creed and Noahide Law]] reveals that three major theological teachings may involve a violation of the Noahide prohibition against idolatry.

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 While Christianity appears to conform to six of the seven Noahide laws, an informal comparison of the [[Nicene Creed#The Nicene Creed, A Noahide Review|Nicene Creed and Noahide Law]] reveals that three major theological teachings may involve a violation of the Noahide prohibition against idolatry.
-*Equating Jesus with G-d
+*Equating [[Yeshu Notzri]] or [[Yeshua Sar HaPanim]] with G-d the Father.
-*Equating the Holy Spirit with G-d
+*Equating the Holy Spirit with G-d the Father.
 However, these theological issues do not fit the classical [[Noahide Law on Idolatry|Jewish definition of idolatry]]. This has caused disagreement among rabbinic authorities on the question of the permissibility of Christianity for non-Jews. (All authorities forbid Christianity for Jews).

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 It is implied by Maimonides in his "Laws of Kings":
-:Even Jesus the Nazarene, who imagined himself as messiah, and was executed by the court -- was already prophesied about by Daniel "Those who are violent among your own people will rise up in confirmation of the vision, but they will falter." (Daniel 11:14). There was a great stumbling in this. All the prophets spoke of messiah as redeemer and saviour of the Jewish people, who will gather the exiles, and strengthen their laws.  But this one has caused the destruction of Israel by the sword, the dispersal of the remnant, the exchange of the Torah for another, the misleading of most of the world to worship a god other than the L-rd.<ref>Mishneh Torah, Laws of Kings and their Wars 11:4</ref>
+:Even Jesus the Christian, who imagined himself as messiah, and was executed by the court -- was already prophesied about by Daniel "Those who are violent among your own people will rise up in confirmation of the vision, but they will falter." (Daniel 11:14). There was a great stumbling in this. All the prophets spoke of messiah as redeemer and saviour of the Jewish people, who will gather the exiles, and strengthen their laws.  But this one has caused the destruction of Israel by the sword, the dispersal of the remnant, the exchange of the Torah for another, the misleading of most of the world to worship a god other than the L-rd.<ref>Mishneh Torah, Laws of Kings and their Wars 11:4</ref>
 Most of these texts are missing from the the standard Vilna edition of these works, and are assumed to have been deleted by the censors.  For whatever reason, the Code of Jewish Law has not made use of these supporting texts.

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 * [[Noahide Law in the New Testament]]
 * [[Tosofos and Christianity]]
 * [[Primitive Apostolic Christianity]]
 * [[Nicene Creed]] (rejected by the Noahide laws)

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 * M. Halbertal, Bein Torah leChokhmah, Jerusalem, Magnes Press, 2000, 80-108.
 * Alon Goshen-Gottstein, "Jewish-Christian Relations: From Historical Past to Theological Future" Ecumenism No. 146 (2002).
+* Elisheva Barre, Torah for Gentiles, 2008
 [[Category:Christian Religion]]
 [[Category:Jerusalem Court for Bnei Noah]]

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 ===Christian opposition===
-The major Christian bodies (e.g. the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Churches and the Protestant Churches) believe the Ten Commandments to be binding on them and would regard the Noahide laws as essentially a subset of these (though the requirement to set up courts, and the dietary regulation, are not explicit in the Ten Commandments).
+The major Christian bodies (e.g. the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Churches and the Protestant Churches) believe the Ten Commandments to be binding on them and would regard the Noahide laws as essentially a subset of these (though the requirement to set up courts, and the dietary regulation, are not explicit in the Ten Commandments).  Some critics of the Noahide laws contend that insisting upon a basic set of moral laws is contrary to [[religious pluralism]].
-Based on the out of context claims that the "punishment for idolatry is the death penalty", and "all Christians are idolators", and that "the Rabbis have absolute control and authority over Noahides", several Christian groups has generated a lot of noise against the Noahide community.
+Some Christians believe that their existence implies that Jews may set up a legal system that would effectively outlaw Christianity.  Based on the out-of-context claims that the "all Christians are idolators", and "punishment for idolatry is the death penalty", and that "the Rabbis have absolute control and authority over Noahides", some Christian groups has generated a lot of noise against the Noahide community.
-This is not the ruling according to the Code of Jewish law.  If Christian were idolators - in the full sense - it would be forbidden to do business with them on the days before and after Sunday as well as any Christian holidays, as well as several other legal rulings would come into effect.  This is not the case, however.  Jewish Law holds that Christian is similar to idolatry, but not full idolatry, and may even be completely permitted for non-Jews. Jewish scholars also by noting that Jews today no longer carry out the death penalty, even within the Jewish community. Jewish law, in contemporary practice, sees the death penalty as an indicator of the seriousness of an offense; violators are not actually put to death. Most Jewish authorities believe that penalties are a detail of the Noahide Laws and that Noahides themselves must determine the details of their own laws for themselves. According to this school of thought - see N. Rakover, Law and the Noahides (1998); M. Dallen, The Rainbow Covenant (2003)- the Noahide Laws offer mankind a set of absolute values and a framework for righteousness and justice, while the detailed laws that are currently on the books of the world's states and nations are presumptively valid.  Lastly, the Rabbis have no control over Noahides, only the ability to interpret the Bible and give rulings in Jewish law. Even in theory, the Rabbis cannot enforce their decisions on non-Jews anywhere outside of the Land of Israel.
+The Jewish community responds by noting that:
 ===Christian support===

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	The major Christian bodies (e.g. the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Churches and the Protestant Churches) believe the Ten Commandments to be binding on them and would regard the Noahide laws as essentially a subset of these (though the requirement to set up courts, and the dietary regulation, are not explicit in the Ten Commandments).		The major Christian bodies (e.g. the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Churches and the Protestant Churches) believe the Ten Commandments to be binding on them and would regard the Noahide laws as essentially a subset of these (though the requirement to set up courts, and the dietary regulation, are not explicit in the Ten Commandments).
		+
		+	Based on the out of context claims that the "punishment for idolatry is the death penalty", and "all Christians are idolators", and that "the Rabbis have absolute control and authority over Noahides", several Christian groups has generated a lot of noise against the Noahide community.
		+
		+	This is not the ruling according to the Code of Jewish law. If Christian were idolators - in the full sense - it would be forbidden to do business with them on the days before and after Sunday as well as any Christian holidays, as well as several other legal rulings would come into effect. This is not the case, however. Jewish Law holds that Christian is similar to idolatry, but not full idolatry, and may even be completely permitted for non-Jews. Jewish scholars also by noting that Jews today no longer carry out the death penalty, even within the Jewish community. Jewish law, in contemporary practice, sees the death penalty as an indicator of the seriousness of an offense; violators are not actually put to death. Most Jewish authorities believe that penalties are a detail of the Noahide Laws and that Noahides themselves must determine the details of their own laws for themselves. According to this school of thought - see N. Rakover, Law and the Noahides (1998); M. Dallen, The Rainbow Covenant (2003)- the Noahide Laws offer mankind a set of absolute values and a framework for righteousness and justice, while the detailed laws that are currently on the books of the world's states and nations are presumptively valid. Lastly, the Rabbis have no control over Noahides, only the ability to interpret the Bible and give rulings in Jewish law. Even in theory, the Rabbis cannot enforce their decisions on non-Jews anywhere outside of the Land of Israel.

	===Christian support===		===Christian support===

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 [[Christian]] critics of the Noahide laws contend that insisting upon a basic set of moral laws is contrary to [[religious pluralism]]. Some believe that their existence implies that [[Jew]]s may set up a legal system that would effectively outlaw Christianity. The Jewish community responds by noting that it makes laws and customs for its own members (like all faiths) and does not set up governments to force [[Judaism|Jewish]] beliefs on non-Jews; in contrast, some non-Jewish faiths have carried out such actions in practice. In addition, with their minimal threshold of morality, the Noahide law may be compared to Catholic social teachings, especially [[natural law]] theory.
-The major Christian bodies (e.g. the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Churches and the Protestant Churches) believe the Ten Commandments to be binding on them and would regard the Noahide laws as essentially a subset of these (though the requirement to set up courts, and the dietary regulation, are not explicit in the Ten Commandments). By contrast, most Jewish thinkers consider the Seven Noahide Laws a parallel system of general categories of commandments, each containing many components and details. Some Jewish thinkers regard the determination of the details of the Noahide Law as something to be left to Jewish [[rabbi]]s. This, in addition to the teaching of the Jewish law that punishment for violating one of the seven Noahide Laws includes a theoretical death penalty (Talmud, tractate Sanhedrin 57a), is a factor in modern opposition to the notion of a Noahide legal system. Jewish scholars respond by noting that Jews today no longer carry out the death penalty, even within the Jewish community. Jewish law, in contemporary practice, sees the [[death penalty]] as an indicator of the seriousness of an offense; violators are not actually put to death. Some Jewish thinkers believe that penalties are a detail of the Noahide Laws and that Noahides themselves must determine the details of their own laws for themselves. According to this school of thought - see N. Rakover, ''Law and the Noahides'' (1998); M. Dallen, ''The Rainbow Covenant'' (2003)- the Noahide Laws offer mankind a set of absolute values and a framework for righteousness and justice, while the detailed laws that are currently on the books of the world's states and nations are presumptively valid.
+The major Christian bodies (e.g. the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Churches and the Protestant Churches) believe the Ten Commandments to be binding on them and would regard the Noahide laws as essentially a subset of these (though the requirement to set up courts, and the dietary regulation, are not explicit in the Ten Commandments).
 ===Christian support===

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	===Christian support===		===Christian support===
		+
		+	[[Image:Noahide Christian.png\|right]]
	Several Christian congregations have abandoned traditional Christianity (rejecting the [[Nicene Creed]]) and adopted the First Covenant or Noahism in recent years. {{Fact\|date=February 2007}} In the United States a few organized movements of non-Jews (primarily of Christian origin) have either chosen to reject mainstream religious affiliation and live by the [[Apostolic Decree]], which they view as the original Christian observance of Noahide Laws, or, under the influence of Orthodox Judaism, adhere to the Talmud's listing of the Laws (without converting to Judaism).		Several Christian congregations have abandoned traditional Christianity (rejecting the [[Nicene Creed]]) and adopted the First Covenant or Noahism in recent years. {{Fact\|date=February 2007}} In the United States a few organized movements of non-Jews (primarily of Christian origin) have either chosen to reject mainstream religious affiliation and live by the [[Apostolic Decree]], which they view as the original Christian observance of Noahide Laws, or, under the influence of Orthodox Judaism, adhere to the Talmud's listing of the Laws (without converting to Judaism).